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Talk:Starfleet uniform
Division Colors Table I made for the Starfleet casualties page, and has since been used on other uniform pages, I'll add a more proper table to the page when the colors are agreed upon. - 21:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC) colours? I'm curious about the colours of shirts in mid-TNG era. Would a typical Chief of Security and Chief Tactical Officer wear wine or mustard? Was there a reason why Worf and Geordi changed colours? etc.-- 23:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC) :For the future, this question can be put on the Reference Desk, but you're new, so I'll tell ya here. Worf and Geordi switched uniforms becuase they changed jobs. Geordi was the helmsman (command division) before he became chief engineer, and Worf had an unspecified job before taking over for Natasha Yar. Also, please register on MA. Click the link in the topright corner. Its free, takes about 4 seconds, and you don't even need a name or e-mail adress.Jaz Forum:What do the colors of the uniforms designate? What do the colors of the uniforms mean? Do they have to do with where they work on the ship or their job description? - :Indeed, the colors of the uniforms do relate to the department they work for, but this depends on the series. *ENT/TOS: **Red = Engineering/Security/Communications **Yellow = Command **Blue = Medical/Science * : (Division strips) ** White – command division ** Orange – sciences division, scientific research and technical branches ** Green – sciences division, medical branch ** Red – operations division, engineering and maintenance branches ** Gold – operations division (communications branch), command division (helm and navigation branches) ** Gray – operations division, security and services branches *TMP Movies: (Division strips) ** White – command division Flag officer pants stripe and tunic trimmed in gold. ** Gold – operations division, helm and engineering branches ** Gray – operations division, communications and navigation branches; also sciences division, scientific research and technical branches ** Dark Green – operations division, security branch ** Light Green – sciences division, medical branch ** Red – cadets, trainees and junior officers ** Dark Blue – commandos ** Light Blue – special services *TNG/DS9/VOY/TNG Movies/Future ** Red - Command ** Yellow - Security/Operations/Engineering ** Blue (Teal) - Sciences/Medical Hope this helps :) - Enzo Aquarius 01:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC) I would suggest putting the names of those colors on the main page. I, for one, do not recognise the names of some of those colors. 02:18, April 15, 2012 (UTC) Just so it's clear, I updated the TOS era command uniform color to reflect the obvious use of lime-green as a dress uniform, and captain's variant designation (and to a lesser extent dark green utility jumpsuits). Whether or not fans collectively agree that the actual lime-green color used in the costumes, which primarily appears yellow/gold/orange under the lights is co-called "gold" for all practical purposes in duty uniforms and jumpsuits, there is no mistaking the unmistakable green color used in the dress uniforms and Kirk's tunic (also emphasized by Archer's use in Enterprise). Perhaps this was intentional to keep the captains, and officers in dress uniforms from looking like arrogant douchebags dressed in bright and/or shiny gold uniforms, but whatever the case: it can't just be dismissed. --Dogg (talk) 18:47, November 12, 2012 (UTC) inaccurate Is there evidence in any canon sources to state that any 2280s division colors were discarded from the general issue of the 2320s when the undershirts had their collar removed? -- we only saw a few officers of that era: Ens. Picard, Batanides, Zweller, Jack Crusher and Ian Troi. Just because there were only three division colors seen, i can't see why this would make anyone think there weren't additional colors in the system still. After all we never saw any medical officers or cadets. I think it is unnecessarily speculative to state Starfleet made a change that there is no evidence of, besides the fact we only saw a handful of officers of the era. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 18:15, 13 May 2005 (UTC) What's this note in the insignia table about Lt JG not being in use during the TMP period? Ilia was explicitly stated on screen as being a Lt JG! --Mark Reed, 18:35 UTC, 25 Apr 2007 :Am I missing something? I don't see a note about that in this article... --OuroborosCobra talk 18:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC) "Captain's" variants Can we really say that the various uniforms worn only by captains (the TOS wraparound, the movies era "bomber jacket", the TNG suede jacket, and the First Contact vest, were all "exclusively" worn by captain's or command officers? I think that we should be more ambiguous about the language -- they werent conclusively proven to be "captain's variant uniforms" -- more along the lines of "variant uniforms... that were worn by a captain" -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 22:31, 8 May 2005 (UTC) :This may or may not add anything, but when Sloan was possing as a Starfleet officer, he also wore the "captain's variant." Aside from Sloan, captains were the only ones that wore them, so I see no reason not to call them "captain's variant uniforms." Willie 10:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC) ::Luther Sloan was posing as a Fleet Captain when he was in the uniform, therefore again it was being worn by a captain. --OuroborosCobra talk 10:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC) Yes, but if the captain was actually a commander or lieutenant commander, he might be able to wear the same uniform with different rank insignia than a captain -- meaning this would be a "commanding officer" variant rather than exclusively a "captain's" variant -- add to that, that the Movie era "capt./CO" jacket was also worn by Scotty with engineering colors, rather than command colors, when he was captain of engineering. I think singling out captains might still be unwise, as another officer on ship could theoretically wear this uniform. -- Captain M.K.B. 14:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC) So he or she would still be a captain. Remeber what Chief O'Brien said to Nog, that whoever is in command of a starship (commanding officer) would be called captain. Therefore, even when they are a different rank, it would still be a "Captain's" variant. Willie 21:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC) attention Please elaborate on this article. I merely started it because I believed an article about uniform styles was needed, but feel that others will be able to provide a lot more information, especially in light of the sort of information contained in the comments of pages like Command division. EthanRicar 17:35, 18 Nov 2004 (CET) *How's it look now? -- Josiah Rowe 07:08, 1 Jan 2005 (CET) TNG Uniform Styles The article implies that the TNG uniform styles were taken out of commision immediately upon the introduction of the DS9/VGR variations. However, characters were frequently seen on DS9 wearing the old variation. For example, Worf wore the old style when he first came aboard DS9. Sisko changed to the old style when he was reassigned to Earth. To complicate matters, in Generations the crew wore both uniforms at various times during the movie. This should be elaborated on. Redfarmer 00:01, 9 Jan 2005 (CET) :How's that for a start? --Josiah Rowe 02:04, 9 Jan 2005 (CET) :In addition, there were several Starfleet captains and admirals in the TNG era style even after the First Contact style took over, in . -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 02:17, 9 Jan 2005 (CET) :What about the uniforms seen in All Good Things..., The Visitor and Endgame?-Excelsior 23:53, 23 Jan 2005 (CET) ::Now added, but someone else will have to put an image of those uniforms in. -- Josiah Rowe 00:50, 13 Feb 2005 (GMT) : One would have to assume that it was a transition period between the uniforms for starfleet. Even though they could easily replicate new uniforms in no time, one assumes that it was not important enough to spend their time on (ie, the time to send subspace transmissions with the order and specs for new uniforms), so it had to happen whenever whoever controls this sort of thing had time. During the transition time, it could also have been optional to continue wearing the old outfits or switch to the new ones. This is similar to season 1 of TNG when some officers wear the dress while others wear the jumpsuit (regardless of sex). The crew is simply given two options, and they can choose whichever they are more comfortable with. Of course, eventually, the older or less functional outfit eventually dies out by natural selection. --Lostinesklo 02:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC) Non-canon This article has too long been a storehouse for non-canon data -- no episode references, and I believe a lot of the dates are faulty -- for example, who said that Star Trek I uniforms were rplaced by Star Trek II uniforms in 2278? That is pure speculation and has no place in Memory Alpha. The last known canonical occurrence of TMP uniforms was in 2272/2273 depending on your chronology, and the first appearance of the TWOK unis was circa 2278 on the Bozeman, but we have no clue when the actual switch took place. This article, if no relevant data exists, needs to make notes like that rather than broad generalizations passed off as fact. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 17:40, 7 Feb 2005 (CET) *I agree that the article needs episode references, and that the dates are a mix of canon and conjecture, which should be fixed. But as a matter of practicality, how do you suggest the article should be structured, if we don't do it by date? A header of "TMP uniforms" is the wrong POV. -- Josiah Rowe 18:57, 7 Feb 2005 (CET) *As the author of the date headings, I did the best I could with the dates that the uniform styles changed. It may very well be incorrect with relation between TOS and the movies, but I do believe that the dates are correct for the the switch between the TNG styles, the TNG to DS9 switch, and the DS9 to First Contact switch. If anyone has any ideas on how to clarify those earlier dates, I would love to hear them. Robert Boismier 07:38, Feb 9, 2005 (CET) * "who said that Star Trek I uniforms were rplaced by Star Trek II uniforms in 2278?" - "Cause and Effect" said so when the Bozeman emerged from the vortex from 2278 with the Star Trek II uniforms. Uniform use on Voyager There probably ought to be some comment about how the continued to use the colorful jumpsuits until its return to Earth, but that Alpha Quadrant Federation personnel seen on Star Trek: Voyager after 2373 were seen to wear the black-and-gray uniforms. I can't quite figure out how best to fit that information in, though. (Plus, I can't recall the first appearance of the black-and-gray uniforms on Voyager.) -- Josiah Rowe 09:15, 9 Feb 2005 (CET) : The first black/grey color uniforms was likely in and, um, isn't 20 edits in one night is getting to be a bit excessive? --Gvsualan 09:57, 9 Feb 2005 (CET) ::Well, when you're on a roll... :) -- Josiah Rowe 10:01, 9 Feb 2005 (CET) :"Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview", "Show preview". :) --Gvsualan 20:36, 9 Feb 2005 (CET) ::Point taken. -- Josiah Rowe 23:00, 12 Feb 2005 (GMT) ::Well, its more of an offense when a user takes twenty edits to finish one paragraph -- this article is benefitting a lot from the extra attention. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 22:24, 9 Feb 2005 (CET) : I know, I'm just playing. It looks good. Super A-Number-1! :) --Gvsualan 01:30, 10 Feb 2005 (CET) ::Well, I wouldn't say it's Super A-Number-1 yet, but it's getting there. :) -- Josiah Rowe 23:00, 12 Feb 2005 (GMT) Field uniform There should be some mention made of the two field uniforms seen - the one, and the DS9 one (seen in and ). -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 23:06, 16 Feb 2005 (GMT) :There was also a field uniform for the Voyager uniforms -- gray jumsuits with department color stripe, very similar to the black combat uni on DS9. These came in long and short sleeves in a few syles, in "Learning Curve" , "Blood Oath" , etc. :Were there rank insignia on the "Nor the Battle to the Strong" field uniforms? - i couldnt see any on the guy wearing one in "The Siege of AR-558" .. these were described as "surface operation blacks" in the "Battle of Betazed" novel -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 02:54, 17 Feb 2005 (GMT) ::I don't think the grays on Voyager were "field uniforms"- I think they were some form of athletic wear. Note, for example, that we saw them in "Learning Curve" when Tuvok was conducting PT with the Voyager personnel he was running through his "academy", and in "Blood Fever", when the crewmembers had to do a considerable amount of spelunking and rock climbing. A short-sleeved-short-legged "field uniform" doesn't really make much sense (sleeves and legs protect against abrasions, insect bites, plant irritants, etc.), but an athletic uniform of that description makes alot of sense. Roundeyesamurai 03:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Dress Uniforms Couple additions to consider: It still needs information about dress uniforms (TOS, TNG & ST: Insurrection) and admirals uniforms from early TNG. --Gvsualan 07:53, 6 Mar 2005 (GMT) *Definately, the white Dress uniforms from Insurrection and Nemesis need to be mentioned, along with all the dress uniforms from all the series'. Is it also worth noting that during the first series of TNG, at least, there are men wearing dresses rather than trousers. Also, isn't Daniels from the 30th Century from Starfleet? Shouldn't his odd uniform be included in the future timeline section, along with future uniforms from episodes of VOY such as ? zsingaya 20:35, 9 May 2005 (UTC) :Daniels didn't say that he was part of Starfleet, to the best of my recollection. Roundeyesamurai 03:10, 2 June 2006 (UTC) :RE: TNG "tube tunic"- yes, males were also seen wearing it. Likewise, if you watch the screencaps from the first two seasons, you'll see that the dress uniform "trousers" aren't trousers at all, they're black stockings. The dress jacket is a one-piece combination jacket/kilt (without pleats, of course), which tapers slightly at the waist and flares slightly at the bottom. Roundeyesamurai 03:10, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Seven of Nine Although her uniform isn't strictly Starfleet-regulation, shouldn't a reference be included in the same way as Deanna Troi's uniform? zsingaya 20:37, 9 May 2005 (UTC) :If Seven did have one then Kes and Neelik would as well. so my answer to you is no Lt.Tom Parris 04:11, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Lt.Tom Parris ::I'm sure that Zsingaya thanks you from the bottom of his heart... six years later. --OuroborosCobra talk 13:28, October 23, 2011 (UTC) The skant Should this article mention the infamous male skirt from TNG's first season? (Alphaboi867 09:02, 11 May 2005 (UTC)) *There's the up-front fact that it existed -- it last appeared on women in "Conspiracy" and "The Neutral Zone" i think and was still visible on various men almost as long into season 1's final half. Consider this my request to all of the other screencappers out there.. find those men in skirts and get me good clear pictures of their uniforms (and rank pins if possible!). meow. *Behind the scenes, this is one of the little futuristic transgender touches they added that contributed to David Gerrold's departure where he was called a "fag-lover" by Gene Roddenberry's attorney, as conflicts between licensing lawyers and staff writers prompted a shakeup of the whole franchise, alienating many of the people who were brought on by Gene Roddenberry. <-- facts like this are difficult to add because they are hearsay -- i can't add behind the scenes info like this unless if ind an instance of where i read it, and Cite my source. Star looknig through your Starlogs and biographies -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 09:25, 11 May 2005 (UTC) *I've got a picture of a "bloke-in-a-dress", although its not very clear, but its definately a man, and he's definately wearing the uniform variant from first season TNG. Actually, its an official uniform variant style, according to the star trek uniform sites on the internet. zsingaya 06:22, 12 May 2005 (UTC) *Here ya go, Encounter at Farpoint in Engineering. File:Enterprise-D lieutenant in skant.jpg (or see right). AmdrBoltz 21:24, 25 May 2005 (UTC) Disambiguation necessary? This page contains a list, chronologically, describing each uniform style used in the history of organizations named Starfleet. Howerver, this is overlapped by an article Starfleet uniform (2140s-early 2160s), which contains a much longer (but less formatted) description of the information here. would it benefit each individual uniform style to expand each onto its own page? this would allow expanded pictures and more descriptions of variants, bckground info and rank insignia links -- another fault of this article covered on the talk page already. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 00:05, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC) : I agree. I think a single Starfleet uniform page for listing all of the different categories and types of uniforms, perhaps with an accompanying image, linking to a whole article about that uniform type. — THOR 00:28, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC) : BTW, I love that picture immediately above. LOL, awesome. — THOR 00:29, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC) : I second, I think they need own pages; and you're welcome on the pic THOR :p --Adm Boltz =/\= 03:03, 2 Aug 2005 (UTC) Pike-era uniforms While the same command-operations-sciences uniform pattern was used in and as in the rest of the series, security guards wore blue in those days! Or it just seems likely. In there are one of two "guards" standing at the turbolift door, just like redshirts in some TOS episodes ( , ) wearing blue shirts. Also, in Eddie Paskey is playing a security guard with phaser beamed down to keep an eye on Mitchell and he is wearing a blue shirt. It's just an interesting thought... --Lt. Arex User talk:Ltarex 17:12, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) :Personally, I don't think much thought should go into mistakes like that. I think they should just be dismissed as mistakes, and we should just assume that, even though we saw them wearing blue shirts, they were really wearing tan or red shirts. In other words, some aspects of certain episodes can be translated as non-canon if they seriously conflict with earlier or later shows.(i.e. Kirk's grave marker in ). That is, of course, unless those contradictions are later explained (i.e. Klingon ridges). --Shran 00:42, 4 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::Or it could be that the crew standing by the elevator were serving some other duty. Possibly they were yeomen or relief for personel in other bridge positions. Or maybe they were junior officers in training observing bridge procedures. I don't think they were security guards.--GreatBear 23:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC) :::I completely disagree. These were not mistakes, so much as a concious choice in the early days of the series, many, many things had yet to be worked out. The basis of the Star Trek canon has been to consitently incorporate and explain everything that is visually depicted. This is why the interiors of Constitution class vessels still look as hokey as they do when the ships in ENT & DS9 look so much more sophisticated. These guys were clearly security, TOS made the decision to dress them in blue and finally there is no reason why security couldn't have fallen under a collective blue division color as some sort of pre-2265 organization of Starfleet divisions. (In particular, it is no different than the US Secret Service that guards the President, reporting to the Treasury division.) Besides, there is no precident for what happened to uniform styles and Federation organization between ENT and TOS. Frankly, this idea that any uniform was ever "beige" prior to ST:TMP, really bugs me and that no one wants to address the disparity between the TOS green dress uniforms and yellow appearing duty uniforms. We all know those gold appearing uniforms were actually green and the so-called beige uniforms were actually gold. If you want conceed this actuality as a mistake, then you've also got to be prepared to accept the uniform colors for what they actually were as well. Not to mention ignoring the fact that some of the old beige (true gold) uniforms had black collars added and dressed extras, most likely due to a uniform shortage and the fact that the costumes kept shrinking. Some fans will go out of their way to explain a costume discrepancy which is a simple production continuity problem, a real mistake. But a conscious use of specific uniforms (for whatever reason) must be explained in the canon. For instance, there is no reason that a production problem like using green uniforms that appeared gold can't be part of the Federation's history as well (e.g. Starfleet switched to green for Command, but the material in the duty uniforms appeared gold in photographs. So 100 years later when Starfleet returned to division specific solid color uniforms they mistakenly used gold, or preferred the way it looked instead of the traditional green). But you can't ignore it. A boom mic in frame should not be explained as some new device. The presence of a character dressed in a particular way should be. Added Details STII era As a former costume hobbiest I felt the need to add a few details to the STII era description. The jumpsuits of that era are either red collar for trainees or black for serving crew. I'm not sure about the reference to "soldiers" as a division.--GreatBear 09:48, 22 Dec 2005 (UTC) :The field jumpsuits for soldiers were seen, with their unique division color collars, in . -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk I remember the fatigue uniform in ST:V. They were 2 piece sweater/pants in khaki or dark green, and used the existing division colors on collars and straps. I was wondering about this line: '' Dark Blue – soldiers''. I find this a dubious "divison" designation and I can't recall ever seeing ground forces in this era. I don't think we saw a "soldier" until later DS9 and not again until the MACOs in Enterprise. ("Major West" in ST:IV wore the red tunic with white command divison markings). I was wondering if the original poster meant Black = Enlisted Personel. Okay I've check the link to Spikes ST page - he claims there are Marines in ST:V with dark blue division markings. I'll have to watch it again (shudder) to confirm this. If true I'd suggest changing the divison name to Marines. --GreatBear 06:20, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC) ::No, the soldiers in STV wore the khaki/drab fatigue uniforms, but with dark blue turtlenecks and sleeve straps. Although I don't remember checking Spike's site recently about this, I know that my own notes on uniforms include this variation, but I haven't rechecked if this is the film I got it from. I'd hesitate to say "marines" as this term wasn't used in the film -- although they perfectly fit the bill of "MACOs", that term wasn't used either. (by the 23rd century, are they more likely to use the 21st century term "marines" or the 22nd century term "MACOs"? I think "soldier" might be a good compromise unless we can find a more definite source naming them anything (if not mentioned in the film, script and makeup notes would make this determination). -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 04:45, 25 January 2006 (UTC) Voyager Uniform Oddities I've noticed something unusual about the Voyager-era uniforms. In several instances - most notably - the standard one-piece jumpsuit with a tunic that clearly fastens in the back is shown as a two-piece jacket and pants, with a tunic fastening in the front. The modifications were clearly done to allow the actors to shed the top part of their uniform and appear more "grungy", but the question is whether to address it at all. I won't weigh in and make the changes as it appears others are playing with this article; I just thought I'd throw it out there. Aholland 20:10, 29 January 2006 (UTC) :Seeing as every occasion that a Starfleet serviceperson took off a DS9/VOY uniform, it always was a two piece of pants and tunic over a gray undershirt, and was never shown to be a jumpsuit -- that it was probably not a jumpsuit. -- Captain M.K.B. 05:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC) Chief O'Brien hung his one-piece jumpsuit on a tree in "Paradise" (DS9), to use as a diversion when he was being pursued by Vinod (was that his name? the kid with the bow?). You'll see O'Brien wearing only his boxers and turtleneck when he jumped down on the kid. I remember reading somewhere that the costumers' idea with the Starfleet uniforms was that the zippers/joiners were supposed to be very small and concealed in order to create a "seamless" effect; and that to create this effect, the uniforms were made seamless, and a separate costume was made for when it had to be filmed being removed. Remember, for example, the episode "Ensign Ro" (TNG)- When the away team beams down to the Bajoran settlement, they are all wearing the standard seamless-front TNG uniforms, but then Ro takes off her jacket by opening the front (this is filmed from such an angle as to obscure the actual opening of the jacket). If anyone else remembers this, and has a source to cite it, it would probably explain the one-piece/two-piece dilemma about the DS9/VOY jumpsuits. Roundeyesamurai 03:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC) :You know, this might seem like an oversimplification, but we have a definite case of Ro opening her uniform, and, with a wave of her hand, creating a seam where none seemed to exist before -- and the uniform she was wearing had a visible zipper seam on the back. Is it possible that Starfleet uniforms could open any way you want it to? Most of the TNG, DS9, VOY "hero" uniforms opened in back, but seemed to be front openable, on occasion. And Ro's jumpsuit, like O'Brien's, has been seen splitting itself into a jacket and pants on occasion. Possibly the best explanation is that the jacket securely, but invisibly, seals itself to the pants when worn. The wearer could decide to split their jumpsuit into a two piece, like Ro did, or make sure their jacket stays attached to their pants in a one piece, as O'Brien did. This means that, no matter whether the actor was actually wearing a two piece or jumpsuit, it could be explained either way when one turns into the other. -- Captain M.K.B. 03:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC) I believe we are in agreement, Mike. I'll even do you one simpler: Maybe 400 years from now, they've figured out how to make an extremely thin zipper-type fastener that will actually fasten securely and is easily hidden. Roundeyesamurai 03:37, 2 June 2006 (UTC) One other thing that occurs to me- the prominent back zipper on the TNG uniforms might be something the audience is supposed to overlook. The production staff is limited to 20th century closures to get the actors in and out of costume. Putting it in back makes more sense than putting it in front, given that the actors are filmed from the front almost all of the time. Roundeyesamurai 06:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC) uniforms Should we make any mention of the special uniforms (right) that were used in "Drive"? — THOR ''=/\='' 23:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC) : It could be a special small heading called Pilot Uniforms. I know they're used in a lot of fan simms. ::They are called "flight suit"s in the episode. I added them under Starfleet uniform (late 2360s-early 2370s)#Flight Suit. I know that it was 2377 but Voyager was still using 2371 uniforms. --Bp 10:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC) TWOK uniforms For the TWOK-GEN era uniforms, which division colors are canon besides white, yellow, gray, green and red? Most sources I look at have those five listed as the only canon colors, but you've got dark green and two shades of blue listed as if they were canon. Can I get some clarification?--Kevin W. 05:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC) :*light blue was worn by waiters at a Starfleet dining facility in and also by table-setters aboard the NCC-1701-A in . seems to be food service specialty... :*dark blue was worn by the assault soldiers in . military spacialty of some sort... :*no clue about the dark green. -- Captain M.K.B. 05:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC) :*Can I get some picture confirmation for the blue shades? Regrettably, I've never seen movies III-V.--Kevin W. 06:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC) Forum:Admiral uniforms .]] Browsing the articles on uniforms, I didn't see much about Admirals. Watching today, Q wore a variation that I don't recall seeing again. Is there a visual discussion of Starfleet Admirals' uniforms on MA somewhere? -- StAkAr Karnak 02:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC) :We could probably use one. I've been thinking about breaking down uniform pages both by era (as they currently are) and also by type (which we are lacking). perhaps an idea with templates? -- Captain M.K.B. 05:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC) ::It seems to me that the uniform depicted was intended to be exaggerated, i.e. the thick gold braid etc. Sort of a mocking gesture by Q. CajunCC 17:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::: That cut (with the gold braid) signifies a dress uniform from that era. However, it is most likely that Q's uniform exaggerates the thickness and size of the braid. However, the concept of that spiralled gold braid WAS used by starfleet for the dress uniforms during the TNG era. --Zorander 00:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC) Forum:Generations uniforms? Whats up with the mix and match of uniforms in Generations, between the TNG and DS9/VOY uniforms? Its even mixed between the main characters.--Cyno01 21:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :There was no mentioned reason as to why the uniforms were mixed and matched, but the real-world reason is that (probably) the costumes were just introduced and were being used on DS9. This would mean that the movie and the series would be sharing new uniforms, causing a shortage. Therefore, actors/actresses would be required to wear TNG uniforms while the new uniforms were being used on DS9. Even so, LeVar Burton and Jonathan Frakes had to use the new uniforms that were being used from DS9's main characters. (You can see that the uniform for Frakes and Burton were not the correct size). - Enzo Aquarius 22:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC) ::A non-canon reason from the Encyclopedia (if I recall correctly) was that the TNG uniform was the standard uniform, while the Voyager/early DS9 uniform was a jumpsuit. They were both uniforms at the same time (also confirmed by the fact that late TNG and early DS9 take place at the same time), and therefore both were uniforms used at the same time, just for different situations. Kind of like the difference between BDUs and a flight suit in modern militaries. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :::At first, I thought that maybe Generations was showing the slow and gradual introduction of the new uniform, as many of the main characters switched from TNG-style to VOY-style, one by one. However, at certain points we see officers going from TNG to VOY and back to TNG, like Picard does. He's in TNG until after he talked to Soran, I believe, and switches to VOY soon thereafter. Then, at the end of the movie, where he and Riker walk through the wreckage, he's back in the VOY style uniform. So I have no idea, is basically what I'm saying. :P - TerranRich 18:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC) ::::Jumpsuits did seem to be quite the Federation's thang, on Terok Nor. I don't know what alternative-uniform-requiring "situation" existed on the station, contrasted against Enterprise-D. I think the Federation officers just wanted to get on the fashion bandwagon of the young gentleman, Jake Sisko, whose delightful onesies always turned a head. Even Q saw the charms of the new wave, and updated his own threads accordingly. SwishyGarak 20:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC) :::::I have been watching DS9 over again, and I can confirm that consistently, the fleet uniforms differ from the station jumpsuit uniforms. Often, there are Admirals or Starfleet Starships docked or on missions, whos crew wear "TNG" uniforms. Generations was just a joke, thats the reason they were mixed. No joke about the uniforms in "Generations". TNG uniforms were the standard uniform for Starfleet personnel through the 2360 - 70s. The DS9 jumpsuit was introduced as a more casual work uniform. DS9 adopted it because the station is a grittier, messier place than a starship. It allowed O'Brien and Co. to roll up their sleeves as they crawled through the grimey Jefferies Tubes of the former Cardassian station. When new starships were being outfitted, the captain would have an option to pick what style of uniform they wanted, with Janeway picking the more casual jumpsuit for Voyager. When the Big E-D came in for a mild refit at about that same time, Picard optioned to provision his ship with both styles. During 2373, the casual jumpsuit was replaced by a new design (the First Contact uniform), and Picard chose that version for his new Enterprise-E. It is interesting to note that, although the new jumpsuits became very popular aboard starships in the mid-2370's, the more formal TNG-style uniform was still in existence, though much less used. 2230s The section marked as 2230s should be entitled 2230s AR as the only time these style uniforms are seen are in the 2009 film. There is to date no canonical pictures of uniforms in the original time-line for this period. - 08:29, January 14, 2010 (UTC) :It was not a new timeline until after Nero arrived, thus those uniforms were used in the regular timeline as well.--31dot 10:46, January 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Nero's arrival in the 2330's affected the timeline long before the 2330's, as evidenced by the ships in service before he arrived. The starship seen before his arrival has much in common with the altered NCC-1701, yet not much in common with the original-universe NCC-1701. This shows that Nero's arrival in the 2330's affected James Kirk's life, affecting the development of the 1930s, 1960s, 1986 (and the lives of a pair of whales and a marine biologist), the 2370s (and the fate of Picard and company on Veridian III), and the Borg invasion of 2373, and the Borg Assimilation of Earth in 2153, etc. ::So, we can only assume that the uniforms shown in the 2330s portion of "Star Trek 2009" -- like the Kelvin itself -- were altered by Nero well before he actually arrived. :That does not make sense. He could not have affected events that occured before he arrived in the past.--31dot 01:40, March 8, 2010 (UTC) :::Of course he could have. In various episodes, Kirk went back in time to the 20th century, so there could be bigger ramifications than just things after 2230 ::::Nero isn't Kirk. We're talking about Nero's effects. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:28, May 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::I think the point he's trying to make is that, with Nero's change to the timeline, a whole lot of other time travel events might not happen now, or maybe will happen differently. For example, in the new timeline, Kirk may never go back in time to retrieve two whales, so Plexicorp may never develop transparent aluminum, leading to a butterfly effect where by the technology developed for starships is completely different. A change like that would even effect events in Star Trek: Enterprise, even though it happened before Nero's incursion. -Angry Future Romulan 21:32, May 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::Star Trek is never internally consistent on temporal mechanics, we shouldn't act like we can predict more than what we know changed, i.e. after Nero's incursion. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:36, May 7, 2010 (UTC) Troi's "uniforms" Should perhaps there be examples of Troi's many "uniforms?" Either here or on her page? RobertM525 05:46, May 4, 2010 (UTC) :Her page would be the choice I would make based on similar choices for Seven of Nine and T'Pol. - 05:53, May 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Especially since it was revealed in the "Chain of Command" arc that her uniforms weren't actually Starfleet regulation. They aren't Starfleet uniforms. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:08, May 4, 2010 (UTC) :::A page detailing the various "casual" uniforms has been created at Casual duty attire. - Aatrek 22:50, March 16, 2012 (UTC) Uniform Material? I was just watching "The Terratin Incident" episode of Star Trek: TAS and Spock and McCoy have a discussion as to how their uniforms are made from "Algae Based Xenolon" (sp?). Is TAS considered canon? And if so, is this fact worth adding to the article?-- 01:29, September 26, 2010 (UTC) :To answer your questions: :#Memory Alpha treats TAS as canonical. :#This fact is mentioned on Starfleet uniform (mid 2260s-early 2270s) (the page for the TOS/TAS uniforms) rather than here, since we don't know that all Starfleet uniforms (which have varied quite considerably) used xenylon.– Cleanse 01:35, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Starfleet dress uniform The dress uniform was worn on many more occasions than are listed here. --Shran 12:32, 8 Aug 2005 (UTC) Gallery or Essay version Being as we've seen many different dress uniforms, it seems that this will eventually have more pictures. So should we have a written out w/pictures page like "Starfleet uniform", or have the written part, and then have a gallery for them like in "Assignment patch"? - AJHalliwell 14:46, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC) : From the discussion we had here, I think that when we split up the page based on uniform eras, each of the dress uniforms will fit onto those pages. But then again, that conversation is about two weeks old, and no work on splitting has been done yet - so I don't know. — THOR 01:10, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC) I just updated specific dilineations on the various Dress uniforms I hvae information on. If you'd still like to split it up betwen eras, I've made it relatively easy to do that. Plus the descriptions allow the reader to envision what the uniform might look like since full body pictures may not be availible. Hope it helps. User: JYHASH 04:08, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC) Non-canon info? This paragraph: '' The wearing of awards and medals was re-instated, and the duty uniform's turtleneck was replaced by a black mandarin collar with gold edging. The duty uniform's belt was also omitted for the dress uniform. It is generally held that these uniforms were still in active use throughout the use of the maroon duty jackets, even though the duty uniforms themselves went through a number of changes (i.e. the elimination of the division turtle neck, the elimination of the belt, etc.)'' Seems noncanon to me. I have not read anything of the sort except for comic books. Any sources? Yahnatan 04:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC) :Most of this seems conjectural to me. Examples: :"The early 2200's dress unifom was similar to the standard duty tunic, but featured a V-neck collar edged in gold braiding. A similarly-colored turtleneck was to be worn underneath. A cap displaying the insignia of the officer's starship was an optional accessory." :- Aside from the one jail guard in ST3, when have we ever seen a uniform with a hat? When have we ever seen a dress uniform from the 2200-2260 period? :Cite for any of the following?: :"There was a general lack of dress uniforms in the 2270's, as a more relaxed atmosphere was adapted in the uniform transitions. Pastel jumpsuits were adopted as standard uniforms, but were generally regarded as too informal and and a shift to new uniforms occured in the mid-2280's. Supposedly, the Dress Uniforms during that time period were similar to the uniform worn by Admiral Kirk at that time consisting of the new division colors and a more formal cut. The dress uniform was also one of the only uniforms of that era to use a pin badge for an insignia, rather than a patch." :"After the uniform change to the universal maroon jackets in the 2280's, the dress uniform changed once again. This time adopting the same wrap around tunic, but of universal color. The wearing of awards and medals was re-instated, and the duty uniform's turtleneck was replaced by a black mandarin collar with gold edging. The duty uniform's belt was also omitted for the dress uniform. It is generally held that these uniforms were still in active use throughout the use of the maroon duty jackets, even though the duty uniforms themselves went through a number of changes (i.e. the elimination of the division turtle neck, the elimination of the belt, etc.)" :"When the uniforms eventually changed in 2351, the dress unforms were changed in color but only slightly in structure... The pants of the tunic were also specific to the uniform, being tighter than regular duty trousers." - Look at screencaps- they're not pants at all, they're footed stockings. :All of the above seems to me to be complete conjecture/fanon. Roundeyesamurai 15:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC) ::The v-neck thing was seen in "The Cage", but the other has not been seen or described to my knowledge. I will therefore delete it. Yahnatan 21:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC) It was? With the cap and all? Screencap? Roundeyesamurai 03:08, 20 May 2006 (UTC) :Not with the cap. That was in Pike's quarters on the Enterprise. Yahnatan 19:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC) Dividing up the article? I don't mean into seperate articles, but I do think that the article should be divided up into sections. Each section would have a picture, a description, then sources and examples. What does everyone else think?--Vercalos 09:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC) *I tried doing this, bu the only good pictures I got of the unifroms came from books & magazines, and I got smacked by admins for violating copyright infringement. So UNless you can dins some great screencaps, then I don't think it's gonna happen.--JYHASH 08:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC) *Netflix+Powerdvd should provide as many screen caps as we need. I just dont have the 10 bucks to do it. there will eventually be a picture for the uniforms... it may just take a while (unless someone wants to make em in poser and license them to MA, and even then, screen caps are preferred). The lack of pictures isn't stopping anyone from reformatting the content, however. --''Six of Six'' ''Talk'' Ω 12:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC) The Uniform timeline with pictures The Voyager was launched 2371 while the Episode was 2376. Why is it dated in 2376 when Voyager has Federation uniforms and laws from 2376 only? Question about 2260's dress uniform How is the women's dress uniform different from the standard duty uniform. The picture includes a picture of Areel Shaw in "Court Martial," but the text lacks a comparison of her "dress uniform" to a standard uniform.– Enterprise1981 20:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC) PNA This article appears to be rather messy - aside from being apparently incomplete, the article's written style needs to be made less informal, and the "Usage" section incorporated into the design section; the images at the bottom need to be turned into a gallery. I've removed the redirect from dress uniform and created its own article, as there are more examples - such as the Bajoran dress uniform - that need to be referenced there. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 18:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC) :I've combined the Usage and Design sections and changed the image tables into image galleries. I will try and clean up the rest tomorrow. ----[[User:Mainphramephreak| Willie]][[User Talk:Mainphramephreak| LLAP]] 00:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC) Redundant/Merge? It seems to me that this page is somewhat unnecessary, since each era of Starfleet Uniforms has a section devoted to Dress Uniforms, and this page is such a mess that perhaps we should redirect "Starfleet Dress Uniforms" to "Starfleet Uniforms" and people can find their way to the particular eras themselves. Any thoughts? -Randy 00:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC) :I agree with the year old post above. - Archduk3:talk 21:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC) ::I oppose a merge. The term "Starfleet dress uniform" should have its own article although this one needs a lot of work. – Tom 10:27, 25 July 2009 (UTC) ::: You say it should, but give no explanation. --Alan 16:11, November 6, 2009 (UTC) : "It seems to me that this page is somewhat unnecessary, since each era of Starfleet Uniforms has a section devoted to Dress Uniforms". I think that really says it all. This entire page is redundant, since all this information is elsewhere. - Archduk3:talk 16:31, November 6, 2009 (UTC) ::: I meant Tom, since his unjustified "vote" is the article's only saving grace. --Alan 16:53, November 6, 2009 (UTC) "Bump" It's been over three years since the original suggestion, and over two with the merge template on the page, and the disposition of this article still remains undecided, though I think we can all agree the state of the article remains a shambles. That, coupled with its redundancy, still suggest that we simply don't need this information as a separate article. - 11:36, August 3, 2011 (UTC) :I agree. Merge.--31dot 11:37, August 3, 2011 (UTC) ::Do it.–Cleanse 12:22, August 3, 2011 (UTC) White dress uniform The white dress uniform seen in Insurrection, Nemesis, and Inter Arma Silent Legis much more closely resembles classic military mess dress, typically used for evening formal events... and given that all the times we've seen it are "evening" affairs like dinners and banquets, would it not be more appropriate to call it "Starfleet Mess Dress"? – JoeZasada 18:37, January 5, 2010 (UTC) I don't think we can ever know much more about the Decorations worn on uniforms Friends, based on what I have seen on this issue I have to reach the above conclusion. Canon info on Starfleet ribbons, medals and awards is extrememly limited. I am willing to conclude that during the Original Series the dress uniforms were meant to parallel the military standard of "dress uniforms" of the day. This has always included, in the 20th Centuries, ribbons and medals. Some one in the wardrobe department must have noted this and created the triangular devices...probably meant to be "service ribbons" and the wear of one substantial "medal." I think the meaning of those awards is lost. I have examined them to see if there are some similiar ones (after all on military uniforms people often have the same ribbons owing to having served in the same or similar events or earning the same award) I see some of this in the triangles. The Ribbons worn during Star Trek VI at Starfleet Command and Generations by a flag officer on the USS Excelsior during the initial ceremony seem to have served as merely "window dressing." I say this because if posted matierals stating that Col West from Star Trek VI was meant to be a satire of Lt Col Oliver North, who as a U.S. Marine Lt. Col. wore many ribbons in his testimony before congressional committees. Also, the Cold War's End parallels...Cold Warriors, like General Curtis LeMay in the US and several Soviet Generals of the time, wore ribbons and decorations. Unless there is some episode of some yet to be produced program where an Instructor at Star Fleet Academy gives a detailed presentation of these awards...we will only be left to speculate. User:Major Carrales :First, please remember to sign your posts. Second, I would have to disagree about your "window dressing" theory. If the flag officer during the ceremony wore the ribbons, they then become canon. Even if they wanted to emulate Ollie North, what we saw is how it now is, canonnical speaking of course. While based on real life ribbons, they are not directly correlated. This is Star Trek after all.--Obey the Fist!! 16:32, March 25, 2010 (UTC) Sorry, Lad, I'm new to this stuff. I'll try harder to learn and obey the coventions of the area. I think you are mistaken as to my original point. I do not negate the canon nature of ribbons existing, they are obviously worn and visible. My contention is that there is no canon evidence for the identity of any specific ribbon. For that to be so, you would have to be able to name each individual ribbon. No canon evidence exists to do that. For example, to identify the longer blue ribbon with two "dots" that several of them are wearing (including Fleet Admiral Bill and Admiral Cartwight). I seems that US Army spaced ribbon mounting bars, as opposed to the USAF ones which rest one row of ribbons on the other with no gap, were "decorated" with various strips of fabric, ribbon cloth and ribbon attachments. The ribbons are also of varying lenght, unlike traditional ribbons that are of uniform lenght. I would like to see some production notes on these. In the various printed works the ribbons are shown as a "representative sampling," likely born of speculation on the artist part.--Major Carrales 05:04, March 26, 2010 (UTC) Relativity/Future's End Uniforms Are there articles for the uniforms worn by Captain Braxton and other 29th century characters on this site? I know they might not belong in this section, as they are from an uncertain future timeline, but they should probably have either a mention or a page somewhere. TrekkieCub314 (talk) 06:00, March 30, 2015 (UTC) :That would be at Starfleet uniform (alternate). 31dot (talk) 10:32, March 30, 2015 (UTC) Surgical Uniform? Is there an article or section about the red suits worn by Starfleet medical personnel while performing surgery (seen in Samaritan Snare, Ethics, Tears of the Prophets, maybe Invasive Procedures)? TrekkieCub314 (talk) 06:43, January 17, 2016 (UTC) :Found it, it was under the specific section for 2350's to 2370's. TrekkieCub314 (talk) 06:56, January 17, 2016 (UTC) Alternate reality mid--2260s Is there anyone working on an article for the uniforms featured in Star trek beyond, it wold be the alrerate reality mid 2260s? Matt Seay (talk) 22:28, July 29, 2016 (UTC) :No it would not, it would be Starfleet uniform (alternate reality). A collar isn't enough to warrent a new page. - 04:26, July 30, 2016 (UTC) Star Trek: Discovery Should not the uniforms shown in the trailers for Discovery be added to the main tables of colours and a new page created for them. I'd do it myself but I'm not confident in my wiki writing abilities. Klingondragon (talk) 21:21, May 24, 2017 (UTC) :I think it'd be a better idea to wait until the actual show comes out, in case something somehow changes last-minute. I don't know if trailers are considered canon or not anyway. TrekkieCub314 (talk) 22:30, May 24, 2017 (UTC) ::Correct. No in-universe additions until the first episode is released. Everything can be changed. Tom (talk) 22:31, May 24, 2017 (UTC)